In Conversation: Widowspeak
The Brooklyn band talks about their new record and their evolution as a group.
In March, Widowspeak, the duo of Molly Hamilton and Rob Earl Thomas, released their sixth full-length album, The Jacket. It follows the matured sounds of 2020’s Plum, keeping their shoegaze elements aflame while still holding their dreamy, folk-pop at the root of their sound. Over the course of six records, the duo has evolved from a humble beginning playing DIY venues around North Brooklyn with their wispy, dusty country vibes evoking more ethereal moments to harnessing a sound that feels more confident than ever before without compromising anything that helped get them this far.
“Everything Is Simple,” the new album’s lead single furthers the band’s lush sound but incorporates steely guitars which give it more of a gritty tone reminiscent of other legendary New York bands. The band has traditionally stuck to more pristine, comfortable sounds like you’d be likely to hear on older country stations, ones that hit with a golden tone and dusty air, but newer songs find the band embracing their love for warmer and fuzzy guitars that billow up like clouds and leave the songs shrouded in a dream-like haze.
Ideally, their music feels most at home somewhere under a brilliant sky full of stars over a desert garden. Surrounded by both the cosmos and the spectacular wonder of a blossom in broken dirt. Hamilton’s oozing vocals sound like cosmic beauty of stardust over Thomas’ gritty and fervent guitar strums.
Their sound feels more dependable than ever, but never quite safe or expected. As the band gets ready to head out on tour in support of their new album, I caught up with the band to hear about how their second pandemic record came to life and what they anticipate as they head into their second decade as a band.
Your new record The Jacket is the second you've released during the pandemic. How was writing and recording this one different from the others?
ROB: I think these last two strangely had a similar approach, in that both came out of a period of relative isolation, because we hadn’t been touring previously and so weren’t building off of an existing live band dynamic. For both Plum and The Jacket, after getting our demos sorted out, we assembled a band to workshop the songs with, and so they still have that live energy in the studio.
MOLLY: In terms of writing, I think right after we finished Plum and it became obvious that we wouldn’t be heading out on the road, and when we moved back to the city that spring (2020) it was sort of a seamless transition into writing The Jacket, in a slightly different headspace but still in ideas mode. Because we had both lost our day jobs, we had the time to dig into it right away over that summer and fall.
Was not being able to tour extensively behind Plum a factor in how you wrote or road tested any new songs?
MOLLY: Definitely, because we couldn’t really road test them at all, but we were able to get together with Michael and start jamming a bit, seeing how things felt, not just as demo versions. I think having both the time and energy to go deep into the demo stage as the two of us, and then have the ability to adjust things and interpret them differently with a drummer, played live, was important to how the record turned out.
What tracks are you most proud of and what are you looking forward to playing on tour?
MOLLY: On the tour we did with Turnover in the fall, we were playing “Everything is Simple,” “The Jacket,” and “True Blue,” and all of those just felt so great and kind of like the best songs in the set, maybe because we felt so proud of them. So I’m excited to play those again, but in practice so far I’m also loving The Drive and Forget It.
ROB: I’m really excited to play all the new songs; I think the way it was written and recorded, as a live band, really translates well to the show environment; they’re already built to be played that way.
In your early days, you got compared to other notable bands (probably a little too often). How did that impact your songwriting and were you ever determined to try and break out of those molds?
MOLLY: I think hearing the comparisons, specifically to Mazzy Star but also any iconic bands we got compared to, was at first a little intimidating and frustrating because I worried that it meant people thought we weren’t original, or that being compared to a band people loved so deeply was essentially saying we could never overcome that, or wouldn’t have our own sound or identity. And because we were pretty young when we started our band and not actually all that deeply connected to the legacy of these artists we were being compared to, I was frustrated that it was following me everywhere. But over time I’ve embraced that comparison as more of a blessing than a curse, because it’s truly a really wonderful band; we love Mazzy Star even if it wasn’t necessarily part of our origin story or early influences, and I’m more comfortable now with those comparisons because we’ve also established our own vibe, and our own sound, six records in.
You've been a band for over ten years and have played tons of shows. You've mentioned still having day jobs and Molly, I know you recently got a second degree. How do you manage to balance being in a band with these other duties?
MOLLY: I’ve usually balanced some sort of service job with music, because it’s easy to be flexible with your schedule. Going back to school was sort of connected to long term goals based on my interests in design and architecture and art history/historic preservation, that are somewhat vague but I know could be fulfilling in a totally different way, if nothing else on a creative and personal level. I got a second BA to basically retool my undergraduate degree with more academic courses (my first was in design) to sort of hedge my bets for applying to grad school someday… But I’m not sure when I’m going to be able to do that, because it’s hard to commit to another path when albums and tours are on these multi-year cycles. I still really enjoy doing this actively, even if the touring part has been on hold the last few years. I’m basically just open to what might happen, with either path, and in an ideal situation I’d be able to keep making records forever and also keep learning, pursue other things I’m interested in. “Other interests” is actually really important for me in order to continue on with the band, I think; you need something else to fuel your creativity, the ideas behind the songs, not just the experiences you have as a musician within the music industry.
ROB: Only recently have I stopped lying to people when I try to get a job. Because everytime I get a job I know that I’ll eventually have to go on tour; before I’d sort of feign surprise like “oh this is totally out of the blue but we were offered a tour! I have to go!” because otherwise, no one wants to hire you. The key is to find industries that work with this lifestyle. It was service jobs for me for a while, but now I’m doing woodshop fabrication which tends to be more project-based. But ultimately, it doesn’t really work very well to balance all of these jobs, which is why if you’re reading this you should buy our record! Or tickets to a show.
When you write songs, does that happen for each of you individually or are you always writing together? Where do the other parts (like the drums for example) get added to the mix?
ROB: Usually it starts with Molly having a loose melody and a couple chord changes, sometimes a finished song. Sometimes it happens where I’ll have a whole song and Molly will basically do karaoke over it. It’s a lot of handing off, not necessarily doing things together at the same time in the same room.
MOLLY: Yeah, we really don’t do a lot of working together in the same room, at least not at the beginning, not until the songs are somewhat established and we’re tweaking the energy and approach a bit. But there’s no one way to write a song for us, each one sort of has its own path.
You got your start as part of the buzzing Williamsburg scene that really thrived in 2009-2012 when there seemed to be shows every night at places like Glasslands, 285 Kent, and Death by Audio. To me, you're one of the best bands from Brooklyn in the past decade. How do you feel now that the scene has evolved? Do you feel connected to any other "scenes" or bands?
ROB: I think less than evolved, the right word for that is that the earlier scene basically ended, and something else, other totally different scenes, sprouted up. I think because we moved around the country over the last few years (we left Brooklyn in 2014 and came back in 2020) we sort of got disconnected from the music community specifically located in Williamsburg/Bushwick, but have made music friends and connected with bands that aren’t necessarily sharing the same origins or moment as us, which is great. Being back here and with shows starting to happen again, I’ve been playing with people in new projects, it’s good to be feeling that in-person, location-specific music connection.
MOLLY: There are always new waves of interesting music and people in New York, and that’s one of the reasons why we moved back, I was just completely missing that sense of excitement. Even when the scene doesn’t necessarily correspond to our own sound or interests, even when our identity as a band is not necessarily connected to it anymore, it’s just really inspiring to be here, because there is so much changing all the time, so many new ideas and different aesthetic shifts. I’ve really noticed a shift in my own approach to music since being back, especially in kind of making peace with that earlier moment fizzling out, and this new one, any new one, popping up, even as an observer more than participant.
Your songwriting and production have matured with spectacular results over the years. What were some of the biggest changes for you band in terms of writing and recording between your first record and The Jacket?
MOLLY: We’ve both gotten more confident in what we like, what we want to do, rather than feeling like we need to shape our sound in certain ways, beyond what comes naturally. I’ve become a much more confident singer, just from years of practice overcoming stage fright (and studio fright); I can hear in my voice on the first record that I was basically afraid to be too loud, I couldn’t relax and I can hear that tension. In terms of writing, I think I’m writing lyrics in a more direct way.
I mentioned earlier that you got lots of comparisons to another band when you started, but who are your influences? Were there any records you had in rotation when writing the new album?
MOLLY: Our influences are sort of the same they’ve always been, and at the same time pretty non-specific; indie rock over the years, some old country and folk, psych rock, shoegaze, dream pop, early rock and roll… Sometimes a single song will sort of set the tone for us veering off onto another path for a while, going deep on some artist’s discography we’re new to, but we also listen to the same records over and over.
ROB: We were listening to a lot of Richard and Linda Thompson, specifically, also John Cale, and The Clean. And I also got into Acetone while we were writing the record.
You've done some great covers over the years, I'm partial to your version of "Harvest Moon," and played with a ton of great artists. Is there a dream collaboration that you think could happen one day or a band you'd love to play shows with in the future?
MOLLY: I think I’m somewhat afraid of collaborations! maybe it’s still the remnant of stage fright, but even though there are bands/musicians I adore and admire, songwriting and singing for me is still more of a solitary act, and playing in this band comes from a place of trust built up over years… Maybe that’s why I like covers, it’s a way of collaborating in a sense, but independently.
ROB: Yo La Tengo or Bill Callahan.
The Jacket, Widowspeak’s sixth full-length album, is out now via Captured Tracks. Buy the record here and catch them on tour!